Italian Defense Official to Asharq Al-Awsat: Russia Left us No Choice

Italy's Undersecretary of State for Defense, Giorgio Mulè. (Asharq Al-Awsat)
Italy's Undersecretary of State for Defense, Giorgio Mulè. (Asharq Al-Awsat)
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Italian Defense Official to Asharq Al-Awsat: Russia Left us No Choice

Italy's Undersecretary of State for Defense, Giorgio Mulè. (Asharq Al-Awsat)
Italy's Undersecretary of State for Defense, Giorgio Mulè. (Asharq Al-Awsat)

A high-ranking Italian official said Moscow's invasion of Ukraine left the Europeans with no choice but to tighten sanctions against it in solidarity with the Ukrainian people.

Italy's Undersecretary of State for Defense, Giorgio Mulè warned that Europe was headed towards a period of instability, but this does not mean that a political solution to the crisis has been abandoned. The solution, he said, could be reached through a third neutral party, such as the United Nations.

Mulè told Asharq Al-Awsat he believes that the European Union must set up a fund, similar to the successful NextGenerationEU fund that was established to help recover from the coronavirus pandemic.

The Ukraine fund would help in addressing the current energy and gas crisis that is affecting European citizens, families and companies, he added.

Mulè also stressed the importance of regional dialogue to address pending disputes related to Iran, starting from the Sunni and Shiite sects and conflicts in Iraq, Syria and Yemen. He underlined the importance of the channel of communication between Riyadh and Tehran, saying Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman was right in setting it up, as he recently declared in his interview to The Atlantic.

On Yemen, Mulè said the attacks by the Iran-backed Houthi militias against Saudi Arabia are a clear challenge to the security of the Kingdom.

Italy condemns these attacks at all international occasions, in coordination with its European and international partners, he added.

Moreover, he remarked that these ongoing attacks and the military operations in Yemen, especially around the Marib province, do not justify the Houthis' refusal to reach a political solution to the crisis.

On Saudi-Italian relations, Mulè described them as "excellent" on the political and economic levels. He said Italy was looking forward to the next meeting of the joint committee and related forum that will bring together the business society.

The meeting will likely be held in June. Several Italian companies are preparing to set up joint projects and unions given the several opportunities for tender that are being prepared in Saudi Arabia.

Mulè underscored the future of cooperation between Riyadh and Rome in the field of military and defense industries. He stressed that the World Defense Show underway in Riyadh is the ideal backdrop for paving the way for future partnerships between Saudi and Italian defense companies.

He predicted that the defense show will become a renowned global event on par with Britain's Farnborough show and the Paris Air Show.

Returning to Ukraine, Mulè said Italy had strongly condemned the invasion, which violates international law. Russia is violating the sovereignty and regional safety of Ukraine and is in turn destabilizing Europe.

He added: "Within the EU framework and in cooperation with our international partners, we were forced to impose a number of severe sanctions. This is also a sign of support to the Ukrainian people."

"Let me here pause to say how greatly pleaded I am to see Italy and Saudi Arabia stand on the same side at the UN when the General Assembly voted to condemn the Russian aggression," he went on to say, describing the move as the right choice.

American-European sanctions
Mulè said the strict sanctions against Russia were necessary "because we could not have a state attack without counter-measures being imposed by the international community."

He stressed the need for the sanctions to be coupled with a diplomatic process that would be promoted by a third neutral party, such as the UN. Rome supports all efforts to that end.

Mulè urged the need for both parties to return to the negotiations table on the highest levels in order to agree to an immediate ceasefire and the opening of effective humanitarian corridors, as well as long-term solutions to the crisis.

Iranian situation
He acknowledged that Rome enjoys a strong historic partnership with Iran that dates back to the time of the Shah. Mulè added that "we have always stressed to the Iranian leadership the importance of regional dialogue to address pending disputes, starting between the Sunni and Shiite sects and the conflicts in Iraq, Syria and of course, Yemen."

He underlined the importance of the communication channel between Saudi Arabia and Iran and the series of meetings between senior officials that were held in recent months in Baghdad.

On the nuclear deal, he remarked that Italy has always been a strong backer of the agreement. It is looking forward to a positive result from the negotiations in Vienna.

The 2015 deal, known as the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPoA), is an effective tool against the proliferation of nuclear weapons, he continued. Its effective implementation, along with bolstering the dialogue between Riyadh and Tehran, will increase regional stability and security.

Riyadh Defense Show
Mulè said he was pleased to be present at the launch of the inaugural World Defense Show in Riyadh on Sunday. He conveyed the greetings of Italian Prime Minister Mario Draghi and Defense Minister Lorenzo Guerini, whom Mulè was representing at the exhibition.

The official said the exhibition reveals the latest products of Italian companies. Several defense systems are on display. These systems are often produced and designed in cooperation with European industrial partners.

Italian companies are very keen on the planned investments, in line with Vision 2030, added Mulè.

"We can follow the path set by Saudi Arabia's Vision 2030 in regards to diversifying the economy," Mulè stated. He added that Italy can be active in Saudi Arabia, not just in classical fields, such as oil and gas, but in increasing cooperation in additional sectors, such as culture, space and civil protection.

He said Italy was keen, through the joint committee, on several agreements in line with Vision 2030.

It is also keen on transferring the greatest possible expertise in order to contribute to the goal set by the General Authority for Military Industries (GAMI) to invest 50 percent of the Saudi defense budget in Saudi Arabia.



Fakhri Karim: I Conveyed Talabani’s Advice to Assad on Terrorists

Fakhri Karim (Asharq Al-Awsat)
Fakhri Karim (Asharq Al-Awsat)
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Fakhri Karim: I Conveyed Talabani’s Advice to Assad on Terrorists

Fakhri Karim (Asharq Al-Awsat)
Fakhri Karim (Asharq Al-Awsat)

The late Iraqi President, Jalal Talabani, excelled at delivering messages subtly. In private meetings, he spoke more freely than in public statements or interviews. His chief advisor, Fakhri Karim, often joined these discussions.

Luncheons were lavish, showing Talabani's respect for different opinions, though he rarely followed doctors’ advice.

Talabani believed that Iranian leaders were smart and hoped they wouldn’t try to control Baghdad from Tehran, citing the failed attempt to manage Beirut from Damascus.

He noted that Iraq’s independent spirit makes it hard for the country to follow the US, Iran, or Türkiye. Talabani also admitted giving refuge to 80 Iraqi officers who had fought against Iran, after they were targeted by certain groups.

Talabani praised Syria’s late President Hafez al-Assad for his invaluable support, providing accommodation and passports.

Speaking to Asharq Al-Awsat, Karim revealed he had warned President Bashar al-Assad, on behalf of Talabani, that militants allowed into Iraq to fight US forces might later turn against Syria.

This, Karim noted, did happen.

After the Israeli invasion of Beirut in 1982, Karim relocated to Damascus. There, he expanded his Al-Mada organization, focusing on publishing, translation, and organizing book fairs, alongside his political activities.

This allowed him to build relationships with top civilian and military officials.

In 2000, after Bashar al-Assad came to power, he met with Karim.

“I felt Assad was eager to listen, especially given my connections with many intellectuals,” recalled Karim.

“I told him dissenting voices exist but are mostly positive. You talk about modernization and renewal; this is a chance for some openness, even in elections,” Karim said he told Assad.

“Do you think anyone could really compete with you, given your position as the Baath Party's leader with all its resources?” Karim questioned.

Karim then discussed the situation of Syrian Kurds with Assad, noting that many lack identification papers, even basic travel documents. He also mentioned seeing historic Kurdish areas in the Khabur region with their names changed to Arabic, which causes sensitivities.

“I am not satisfied with this situation. Rest assured, this issue is on my agenda, and you will hear positive news about it,” Karim cited Assad as saying at the time.

In a later meeting, after the change in Iraq, Karim met Assad several times.

On one occasion, Karim recalls conveying Talabani’s greetings and concerns about armed fighters moving into Iraq and the dangers this posed to both Iraq and possibly Syria.

“We have deployed large forces to secure the borders, but what can we do? There are tribes and smugglers,” Assad complained about the situation.

“I told President Assad that as Fakhri Karim, I couldn’t share with the Americans what I know. I assured him that terrorists enter Iraq from a specific location I’m familiar with, not from all borders,” Karim recounted to Asharq Al-Awsat.

“I also noted that Syria tightly controls its airspace, shooting down any foreign aircraft,” he added.

Assad then responded to Karim and said: “We’re prepared, let us know what we can do.”

In reality, Damascus was worried because there were reports suggesting that Syria’s Baath regime could be the next target for the US army at its borders. Additionally, Damascus was concerned about the sectarian divisions—Shiite, Sunni, and Kurdish—in dealing with Iraq and the potential impact on Syria.

Repairing Kurdish Relations

Karim has spent years working on repairing the relationship between Kurdish leaders Talabani and Masoud Barzani.

This history began with the split that gave rise to the ‘Patriotic Union of Kurdistan’ from the ‘Kurdistan Democratic Party.’

Despite bloody conflicts and external meddling, Karim believes Kurdish leaders unify in the face of danger to their people and region, a pattern he expects to continue.

Karim believes that the Kurdish leadership, symbolized by Masoud Barzani and Jalal Talabani, made a big mistake at the beginning by focusing only on regional issues, ignoring Baghdad’s affairs.

He thinks they should have aimed for a federal democratic system that respects citizenship rights.

Karim pointed out that without a unified Iraq, the region’s rights would be uncertain. He also criticized the Shiite-Kurdish alliance, which he sees as odd.

Additionally, he mentioned mistakes in failing to unify regional institutions and increasing corruption, with party interests often trumping competence in appointments.

Asked about the personal bond between Talabani and Barzani, Karim said: “Both have moved past their tough history, but they haven’t done enough for the future.”

“I want to highlight an act by Barzani that shows his character. When Talabani was sick, Barzani made it clear to anyone thinking of harming Talabani or his family that there would be consequences,” he revealed.

“This isn’t hearsay, it’s firsthand,” affirmed Karim.

“Barzani also refused to discuss the presidency or a successor during Talabani’s illness. I personally organized a gathering for Talabani’s family, where Barzani reassured them, ‘I’m here for you, I’m family.’ His words moved everyone, showing a strong emotional connection,” he added.

When asked about Barzani’s character, Karim said: “He's been a long-time friend, and our relationship has been politically aligned and personally warm from the start.”

“I see him as a loyal friend, and he's shown that loyalty on multiple occasions. He’s smart, decisive, and listens carefully, often changing his mind after thorough consideration,” he noted.

“Once Barzani commits to something, he finds it hard to go back on his word. There was a moment during negotiations with Saddam Hussein when he stood firm despite my advice to reconsider,” recalled Karim.

Regarding the aftermath of the independence referendum, Karim believes that the negative turn in the political landscape began during Nouri al-Maliki’s tenure.

Al-Maliki’s attempts to shift alliances and his refusal to compromise exacerbated tensions.

The referendum itself wasn’t the problem; rather, it was exploited by some to punish the Kurdistan Region.

However, Karim emphasized that holding referendums is a citizen’s right, and the purpose of the Kurdistan referendum was to affirm this right, not to declare independence.