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Italian Defense Official to Asharq Al-Awsat: Russia Left us No Choice

Italy's Undersecretary of State for Defense, Giorgio Mulè. (Asharq Al-Awsat)
Italy's Undersecretary of State for Defense, Giorgio Mulè. (Asharq Al-Awsat)
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Italian Defense Official to Asharq Al-Awsat: Russia Left us No Choice

Italy's Undersecretary of State for Defense, Giorgio Mulè. (Asharq Al-Awsat)
Italy's Undersecretary of State for Defense, Giorgio Mulè. (Asharq Al-Awsat)

A high-ranking Italian official said Moscow's invasion of Ukraine left the Europeans with no choice but to tighten sanctions against it in solidarity with the Ukrainian people.

Italy's Undersecretary of State for Defense, Giorgio Mulè warned that Europe was headed towards a period of instability, but this does not mean that a political solution to the crisis has been abandoned. The solution, he said, could be reached through a third neutral party, such as the United Nations.

Mulè told Asharq Al-Awsat he believes that the European Union must set up a fund, similar to the successful NextGenerationEU fund that was established to help recover from the coronavirus pandemic.

The Ukraine fund would help in addressing the current energy and gas crisis that is affecting European citizens, families and companies, he added.

Mulè also stressed the importance of regional dialogue to address pending disputes related to Iran, starting from the Sunni and Shiite sects and conflicts in Iraq, Syria and Yemen. He underlined the importance of the channel of communication between Riyadh and Tehran, saying Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman was right in setting it up, as he recently declared in his interview to The Atlantic.

On Yemen, Mulè said the attacks by the Iran-backed Houthi militias against Saudi Arabia are a clear challenge to the security of the Kingdom.

Italy condemns these attacks at all international occasions, in coordination with its European and international partners, he added.

Moreover, he remarked that these ongoing attacks and the military operations in Yemen, especially around the Marib province, do not justify the Houthis' refusal to reach a political solution to the crisis.

On Saudi-Italian relations, Mulè described them as "excellent" on the political and economic levels. He said Italy was looking forward to the next meeting of the joint committee and related forum that will bring together the business society.

The meeting will likely be held in June. Several Italian companies are preparing to set up joint projects and unions given the several opportunities for tender that are being prepared in Saudi Arabia.

Mulè underscored the future of cooperation between Riyadh and Rome in the field of military and defense industries. He stressed that the World Defense Show underway in Riyadh is the ideal backdrop for paving the way for future partnerships between Saudi and Italian defense companies.

He predicted that the defense show will become a renowned global event on par with Britain's Farnborough show and the Paris Air Show.

Returning to Ukraine, Mulè said Italy had strongly condemned the invasion, which violates international law. Russia is violating the sovereignty and regional safety of Ukraine and is in turn destabilizing Europe.

He added: "Within the EU framework and in cooperation with our international partners, we were forced to impose a number of severe sanctions. This is also a sign of support to the Ukrainian people."

"Let me here pause to say how greatly pleaded I am to see Italy and Saudi Arabia stand on the same side at the UN when the General Assembly voted to condemn the Russian aggression," he went on to say, describing the move as the right choice.

American-European sanctions
Mulè said the strict sanctions against Russia were necessary "because we could not have a state attack without counter-measures being imposed by the international community."

He stressed the need for the sanctions to be coupled with a diplomatic process that would be promoted by a third neutral party, such as the UN. Rome supports all efforts to that end.

Mulè urged the need for both parties to return to the negotiations table on the highest levels in order to agree to an immediate ceasefire and the opening of effective humanitarian corridors, as well as long-term solutions to the crisis.

Iranian situation
He acknowledged that Rome enjoys a strong historic partnership with Iran that dates back to the time of the Shah. Mulè added that "we have always stressed to the Iranian leadership the importance of regional dialogue to address pending disputes, starting between the Sunni and Shiite sects and the conflicts in Iraq, Syria and of course, Yemen."

He underlined the importance of the communication channel between Saudi Arabia and Iran and the series of meetings between senior officials that were held in recent months in Baghdad.

On the nuclear deal, he remarked that Italy has always been a strong backer of the agreement. It is looking forward to a positive result from the negotiations in Vienna.

The 2015 deal, known as the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPoA), is an effective tool against the proliferation of nuclear weapons, he continued. Its effective implementation, along with bolstering the dialogue between Riyadh and Tehran, will increase regional stability and security.

Riyadh Defense Show
Mulè said he was pleased to be present at the launch of the inaugural World Defense Show in Riyadh on Sunday. He conveyed the greetings of Italian Prime Minister Mario Draghi and Defense Minister Lorenzo Guerini, whom Mulè was representing at the exhibition.

The official said the exhibition reveals the latest products of Italian companies. Several defense systems are on display. These systems are often produced and designed in cooperation with European industrial partners.

Italian companies are very keen on the planned investments, in line with Vision 2030, added Mulè.

"We can follow the path set by Saudi Arabia's Vision 2030 in regards to diversifying the economy," Mulè stated. He added that Italy can be active in Saudi Arabia, not just in classical fields, such as oil and gas, but in increasing cooperation in additional sectors, such as culture, space and civil protection.

He said Italy was keen, through the joint committee, on several agreements in line with Vision 2030.

It is also keen on transferring the greatest possible expertise in order to contribute to the goal set by the General Authority for Military Industries (GAMI) to invest 50 percent of the Saudi defense budget in Saudi Arabia.

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Interviews

Goldrich to Asharq Al-Awsat: No US Withdrawal from Syria

US Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs Ethan Goldrich during the interview with Asharq Al-Awsat
US Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs Ethan Goldrich during the interview with Asharq Al-Awsat
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Goldrich to Asharq Al-Awsat: No US Withdrawal from Syria

US Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs Ethan Goldrich during the interview with Asharq Al-Awsat
US Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs Ethan Goldrich during the interview with Asharq Al-Awsat

Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs Ethan Goldrich has told Asharq Al-Awsat that the US does not plan to withdraw its forces from Syria.

The US is committed to “the partnership that we have with the local forces that we work with,” he said.

Here is the full text of the interview.

Question: Mr. Goldrich, thank you so much for taking the time to sit with us today. I know you are leaving your post soon. How do you assess the accomplishments and challenges remaining?

Answer: Thank you very much for the chance to talk with you today. I've been in this position for three years, and so at the end of three years, I can see that there's a lot that we accomplished and a lot that we have left to do. But at the beginning of a time I was here, we had just completed a review of our Syria policy, and we saw that we needed to focus on reducing suffering for the people in Syria. We needed to reduce violence. We needed to hold the regime accountable for things that are done and most importantly, from the US perspective, we needed to keep ISIS from reemerging as a threat to our country and to other countries. At the same time, we also realized that there wouldn't be a solution to the crisis until there was a political process under resolution 2254, so in each of these areas, we've seen both progress and challenges, but of course, on ISIS, we have prevented the reemergence of the threat from northeast Syria, and we've helped deal with people that needed to be repatriated out of the prisons, and we dealt with displaced people in al-Hol to reduce the numbers there. We helped provide for stabilization in those parts of Syria.

Question: I want to talk a little bit about the ISIS situation now that the US troops are still there, do you envision a timeline where they will be withdrawn? Because there were some reports in the press that there is a plan from the Biden administration to withdraw.

Answer: Yeah. So right now, our focus is on the mission that we have there to keep ISIS from reemerging. So I know there have been reports, but I want to make clear that we remain committed to the role that we play in that part of Syria, to the partnership that we have with the local forces that we work with, and to the need to prevent that threat from reemerging.

Question: So you can assure people who are saying that you might withdraw, that you are remaining for the time being?

Answer: Yes, and that we remain committed to this mission which needs to continue to be pursued.

Question: You also mentioned the importance of humanitarian aid. The US has been leading on this. Are you satisfied with where you are today on the humanitarian front in Syria?

Answer: We remain committed to the role that we play to provide for humanitarian assistance in Syria. Of the money that was pledged in Brussels, we pledged $593 million just this past spring, and we overall, since the beginning of the conflict, have provided $18 billion both to help the Syrians who are inside of Syria and to help the refugees who are in surrounding countries. And so we remain committed to providing that assistance, and we remain keenly aware that 90% of Syrians are living in poverty right now, and that there's been suffering there. We're doing everything we can to reduce the suffering, but I think where we would really like to be is where there's a larger solution to the whole crisis, so Syrian people someday will be able to provide again for themselves and not need this assistance.

Question: And that's a perfect key to my next question. Solution in Syria. you are aware that the countries in the region are opening up to Assad again, and you also have the EU signaling overture to the Syrian regime and Assad. How do you deal with that?

Answer: For the United States, our policy continues to be that we will not normalize with the regime in Syria until there's been authentic and enduring progress on the goals of resolution 2254, until the human rights of the Syrian people are respected and until they have the civil and human rights that they deserve. We know other countries have engaged with the regime. When those engagements happen, we don't support them, but we remind the countries that are engaged that they should be using their engagements to push forward on the shared international goals under 2254, and that whatever it is that they're doing should be for the sake of improving the situation of the Syrian people.

Question: Let's say that all of the countries decided to talk to Assad, aren’t you worried that the US will be alienated in the process?

Answer: The US will remain true to our own principles and our own policies and our own laws, and the path for the regime in Syria to change its relationship with us is very clear, if they change the behaviors that led to the laws that we have and to the policies that we have, if those behaviors change and the circumstances inside of Syria change, then it's possible to have a different kind of relationship, but that's where it has to start.

Question: My last question to you before you leave, if you have to pick one thing that you need to do in Syria today, what is it that you would like to see happening today?

Answer: So there are a number of things, I think that will always be left and that there are things that we will try to do, to try to make them happen. We want to hold people accountable in Syria for things that have happened. So even today, we observed something called the International Day for victims of enforced disappearances, there are people that are missing, and we're trying to draw attention to the need to account for the missing people. So our step today was to sanction a number of officials who were responsible for enforced disappearances, but we also created something called the independent institution for missing persons, and that helps the families, in the non-political way, get information on what's happened. So I'd like to see some peace for the families of the missing people. I'd like to see the beginning of a political process, there hasn't been a meeting of the constitutional committee in two years, and I think that's because the regime has not been cooperating in political process steps. So we need to change that situation. And I would, of course, like it's important to see the continuation of the things that we were talking about, so keeping ISIS from reemerging and maintaining assistance as necessary in the humanitarian sphere. So all these things, some of them are ongoing, and some of them remain to be achieved. But the Syrian people deserve all aspects of our policy to be fulfilled and for them to be able to return to a normal life.